Saturday, February 12, 2005
Sigh. To no avail. Points to NIck though for his Sealab quote.
Alden: The government is not steeling your money here, it is taking it for he service rendered.
Alden: There could be toll roads (like London implements), or as is now, you're taxed for driving (tax is on gasoline), which pays for the roads.
Alden: The railroads did a heck of a lot more than the government did in terms of transportation. And it's not like there would be no transportation.
Alden: About the infrastructure: there was a lot of it before the government built it all. What about the railroads? Those were all privately owned.
Alden: What good is an ideal if it is completely unatainable? What's this about sacrificing for real consequences? Isn't your ideal then to have the best possible real consequences?
NIck: I prefer a system which aspires to address human well-being than one which aspires to address human greed.
NIck: You seem to value property, and the individual right to property, higher than the lives of others.
NIck: My values are human life and well-being, and that property should be sacrificed in that interest...
NIck: Ideals are what we aspire to, making sacrifices towards them in the interest of real consequences.
NIck: I could go on for a very long time. My point is, your ideals and mine don't work in reality.
NIck: ...sweetest of the transition metals.
NIck: The air quality is rapidly going downhill, and there's a toxic waste dump outside your front door. Your water tastes like mercury.
NIck: You have a similar problem when purchasing pharmaceuticals...
NIck: Your next meal could literally kill you, because there is no oversight of food processing or storage...
NIck: The resulting poverty means taxes are still high, because controlling crime is more difficult.
NIck: Consumer goods are extremely expensive, because there is little transportation infrastructure...
NIck: You have a hard time getting anywhere to work, because there are no roads...
NIck: Unless you were privately educated, you're illiterate...
NIck: Please review your life and remove every non-police, non-military, non-disaster relief governmental service you've ever used.
NIck: Imagine the real consequences of your libertarian system.
NIck: What you've screwed up completely here is attempting to apply either of our philosophical systems to the real world.
"Out vile jelly!" - Duke of Cornwall, King Lear
Alden: The government is not steeling your money here, it is taking it for he service rendered.
Alden: There could be toll roads (like London implements), or as is now, you're taxed for driving (tax is on gasoline), which pays for the roads.
Alden: The railroads did a heck of a lot more than the government did in terms of transportation. And it's not like there would be no transportation.
Alden: About the infrastructure: there was a lot of it before the government built it all. What about the railroads? Those were all privately owned.
Alden: What good is an ideal if it is completely unatainable? What's this about sacrificing for real consequences? Isn't your ideal then to have the best possible real consequences?
NIck: I prefer a system which aspires to address human well-being than one which aspires to address human greed.
NIck: You seem to value property, and the individual right to property, higher than the lives of others.
NIck: My values are human life and well-being, and that property should be sacrificed in that interest...
NIck: Ideals are what we aspire to, making sacrifices towards them in the interest of real consequences.
NIck: I could go on for a very long time. My point is, your ideals and mine don't work in reality.
NIck: ...sweetest of the transition metals.
NIck: The air quality is rapidly going downhill, and there's a toxic waste dump outside your front door. Your water tastes like mercury.
NIck: You have a similar problem when purchasing pharmaceuticals...
NIck: Your next meal could literally kill you, because there is no oversight of food processing or storage...
NIck: The resulting poverty means taxes are still high, because controlling crime is more difficult.
NIck: Consumer goods are extremely expensive, because there is little transportation infrastructure...
NIck: You have a hard time getting anywhere to work, because there are no roads...
NIck: Unless you were privately educated, you're illiterate...
NIck: Please review your life and remove every non-police, non-military, non-disaster relief governmental service you've ever used.
NIck: Imagine the real consequences of your libertarian system.
NIck: What you've screwed up completely here is attempting to apply either of our philosophical systems to the real world.
"Out vile jelly!"
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